They will say anything they can get the ignorant on the right to believe. They are not worried about the truth of the matter.

There are those on the right want to believe the lies. This fiction was brewed up for distraction. Just like the trolls on this Vine, post do every day. They do not come here bearing facts.

You're absolutely right, Thankful Mom. They didn't like all the *wins* President Obama had going this week, i.e. the mortgage robo-signing settlement/start of the bringing down of the banksters, job creation and unemployment reports, sticking up for women, the photo of that marshmallow canon/priceless expression of Obama during the science fair at the White House, support of the 2nd largest teachers association, approval ratings up/better than any GOP opponents, and I know I'm missing something else. (And he just gracefully/tactfully solved this contraception coverage vs. religion issue.) :P

(P.S. cute dog in your avatar!) :^)

Of course they will. They will accuse him of religious persecution, class warfare and everything in the book. They are really like the Devil in Revelation that knows he has a very short time to continue misleading the people.

The GOP did not expect all this social media that is all over the country. They are trying to keep their base from really waking up and they are losing control.

I look at Santorum's children in the background. Why don't they tell their father, that he is lying about the president. The president is not what their father says he is. They probably have access to the social media around and they can see. I pity them because even though they know and inside they maybe screaming they will not feel free enough to say anything. Father is the keeper of the money bags. Money is a great motivator and it motivates to accept things one would not accept if money was removed from the picture.

Of course they will.... we can always depend on the Repugs to beat a dead horse to a pulp.

And damn right Robme... President Obama DIDN'T BACK DOWN BECAUSE HE IS IN THE RIGHT. And THERE WAS NO DECEPTION in what President Obama did!

What in the HELL IS ROBME TALKING ABOUT?

Vote for (generic republican) because of (these social issues) and (fear-mongering) and (racist rhetoric). That is all they have in their quiver. May they be exposed for the frauds they are.

I hope women see the intense misogyny that resides within the Republican candidates and reject this type of behavior. It is hard to believe that in 2012 birth control is even considered an issue.

The thing is this: I am a registered male Republican(20+ years). I was talking to another, older, registered Republican and I spit out my coffee while talking about this very issue. Neither one of us can recognize any value in this political schema that demonizes women's health issues. We laughed out loud at the idea of any one of the current GOP candidates as a viable President Of The United States.

Now, we just need to get in touch with Ohio voters and beg them to unelect John Boneher for the sake of the Country. He is a shameful Speaker. John Boehner and Eric Cantor need to be voted out of office so they can go work for the corporations they put above the American Citizen.

I knew there were other significant *wins* this past week for President Obama and forgot to mention that the stock market closed the highest in 3 years, last Friday, and of course, that Clint Eastwood ad that I don't think most of America thought was political. The people I've talked to thought it was a great feel-good ad to motivate our country to pull together. Those same people can't believe the ad ended up being a political football. People need to feel hope right now and all the GOP are offering are doom, gloom, and no practical solutions.

@ FeedTheUSA.

Absolutely, what have GOP done in the last 4 years beside obstruction and crazy talk and more crazy talk to polarize American, and stir up their base, but offer no substance for American everyday problems.

I was reading the NYT post in regard to"Obama Acts to Calm Furor on Birth Control Coverage Rule" and I saw a lot of spin from GOP and conservative that president Obama should not compromise, and you know what that means--they want this to be a distraction until November.

Having said that, I'm glad the water is getting calmer, so, we can focus on the big picture, which is winning 2012 election for President Obama, for the House, and the Senate.

Vote Obama 2012 !!

@FeedTheUSA & TMom

Exactly right.... the Repugs have nothing to offer, no ideas and no desire to even fix the problems in this country. The only thing they can do is tell lies and accuse President Obama of everything they can think of... hoping their ignorant followers continue to follow them right off the cliff.

Hey TMom.... is that an Obama symbol with a heart inside in your avatar? Cool.

On the contraception issue: President Obama appears to be the only adult in government these days. It surprises me how many of the Democratics are saying the Prez capitulated; he did not, that was a victory for maturity - compromise. He pulls no punches, just overlords over the chaos the repub/tparty right-wing throws at him and Bingo! Another win, tho the Prez just let's a victory roll off his shoulders. This man truly is a gift for US. For sure, OBAMA 2012. And 4 more years with First Lady Michelle. They are a picture of Family Values.

Yes, it is my Valentine vote, DS.

I started my Valentine celebrations early. Today we went to the retirement home and had happy hour. They had a really nice live band and we took our husbands and danced with the seniors. Tuesday we are doing the same with the "Day Care" citizens that family's prefer to keep at home, but have a place to leave their love one. We will be exchanging valentines and again dance with all those who may have a handicap, but love to have fun.

@EARTHGIRL

Can you imagine that Steve King, R-Iowa that went on Martin Bashir T.V show, and said that women contraception is for a abortion purpose? I'm wondering how many GOP are saying this? This is unbelievable !

The one I find unbelievable is Rep Tom Price from Georgia, who is saying that there is not one woman in America who does not have access to contraception.

Sadly, the GOP understands that winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. Once one is willing to do whatever it takes to win, to control, to be in power, then acceptance of all kinds of "necessary" actions follows.

When a religious war is waged, it is done for the "right" reasons. All manner of atrocities may be, thusly, excused. So, if the Republican party determines that a religious crusade is the best way to recapture power and the White House, then a whole new chapter in American politics will be written--and it won't be exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

We need Obama to find a whole bunch more stuff in the "free" basket. I mean, contraceptives are now free, how about an MRI or two? Maybe toss in a C-Scan or a liposuction? The solution to health care has to be to find more and more stuff in the free basket. Ain't nuttin better than free.

@Whatever Works

Wow... a Republican who sees the light and makes some sense. I'm glad to hear it and I don't mean to sound patronizing in anyway. I'm just knocked off my chair as we don't hear this sort of comment from conservatives much in here.

They normally come in here to argue or spew the latest talking points taught over on Fox and Flunkies. Though a few do come in to discuss issues, but none are usually openly admitting that their crop of candidates are not fit for the Presidency.

So what is your attitude about President Obama's performance? Do you give him any credit at all for rescuing the economy and getting it headed in the right direction? What about his foreign policy and going after the terrorists, etc. I'm interested in hearing your opinions on these as I feel you are more apt to be fair rather than biased.

@FeedTheUSA

Exactly... I thought the Clint Eastwood ad was a motivational... feel good our country is getting back on track... and auto industry is back in the driver's seat... sort of message.

Also a message of the American spirit of what we can accomplish as a country when we do pull together.... a lesson the GOP still need to learn apparently.

Of course, not being a football fan, I didn't watch it during Superbowl.... but it was run on nearly all the shows I watch on MSNBC the next day.

@Thankful Mom-3182614, RE:

They will say anything they can get the ignorant on the right to believe. They are not worried about the truth of the matter.

That's why Faux News Channel will continue to exist for a long time. The RepubliConners need to maintain the multiplicity of the muddled masses of the misinformed so they'll be able to maintain the odds of having enough votes so that the GOP Reps can continue being Puppets of the Plutocrats and maintain the inequities which provide the inertia to drive the ever increasing inequalities between the 1% and the 99%.

There are those on the right want to believe the lies.

That's why they watch Hannity, O'Reilly, Fox & Frauds on Faux News, or listen to the likes of Rush, Beck, Boortz, and the rest of the radical-right wing radio talk shows. All of these Conservatives are so far to the right on the Nut-Wing fringe that they become Wronger and Wronger. But the ignorant are so comfortable with what they hear because it reinforces that which they want to believe.

@FeedTheUSA, RE:

They didn't like all the *wins* President Obama had going this week, i.e. the mortgage robo-signing settlement/start of the bringing down of the banksters

The one AG (from Oklahoma) who rejected that settlement did so because he thought it was too strong. If I were in Oklahoma and one of the victims of FraudClosureGate, I'd be looking into recalling that SOB. And Gov. Walker used Wisconsin's allotment to pay against the budget deficit instead of letting it be used to mitigate the damage done to the victimized citizens of Wisconsin. If I were in Wisconsin, I'd be starting a class-action civil suit against Walker which could at least partially be paid out of the fund Walker is accumulating to try and prevent actually being removed from office.

@DScully-2892243, RE:

What in the HELL IS ROBME TALKING ABOUT?

It's nothing more than a figment of his demented 1%ed imagination. Just manufacturing more ways to try and fool enough people to not only vote for him in the Primaries so that he'll get the nomination, but also vote for him in the General Election too, regardless of the fact that the more persuasive and successful he is at satisfying the Conservative base, the less successful he will be at attracting the Independent votes.

The best thing about Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich speaking at CPAC as stridently as they did is that whoever gets the nomination has hung himself for November.

@CosmicChuck

Well yes... of course I know that is what is going on.... it's the LIES he has to tell to get nominated. And his lies are getting more and more outrageous as the primaries go on and he becomes more desperate. I haven't heard a truthful thing come out of his mouth, either regarding President Obama's record or his own.... as a Bain CEO or Governor of MA.

rusty,

sex is a biological urge. since pregnancy can be the end result of intercourse, and women bear the reponsibility of that, they should be able to enjoy sex without the fear of getting pregnant.

i know you all think that poor people all take drugs and drink and smoke, and should just stop doing those things so they could afford to buy birth control, but many women are single parents with several children to support on their own, and they cannot afford birth control. part of the reason for this is that men do not take responsibility for their children.

if women can count on the fact that they can get birth control, there will be less abortion, less abused children in this world.

i heard a priest yesterday on "morning joe" complaining because we view birth control as a "preventative" medicine. he was complaining that women see pregnancy as something to be "prevented".

i do not understand the catholic's position on birth control. their position gives men power, with the woman left to do nothing but get pregnant.

your sarcasm is rich.

FeedTheUSA...

maintain the multiplicity of the muddled masses of the misinformed

Sweet alliteration! And I noticed more of it in your post, too mich to repeat here...

I'd bet you are a dynamite poet...

Yeah- I know all about sex. It's great. But- please tell me where that "free" box of goodies is? And what else is in it? I mean- if Obama has had the brilliance to discover such a thing (seemingly- he is acknowledged as brilliant on this move- even though it was exceedingly stupid and unnecessary, and had warnings from those closest to him)- could he not toss in some free mammograms, prostate exams, maybe a C-scan or two? Why stop at free birth control?

If whoever is paying for the policy doesn't have to pay for it, and whoever gets the goods doesn't have to pay for it- and only the insurance company has to pay for it- isn't that like saying that other people who buy insurance will have to subsidize those plans?

I for one would love to live in a world where people took care of each other and got the medical treatment they needed because they needed it not because they paid for it. That we as human beings treated one other with love and compassion

but alas I'm off topic

Now nothing is free in the health care system so what will happen is there would be no co-pay but that hardly means the recipient pays nothing. So no there is no stalinist wealth distribution the let it die party stays up long nights fearful of. What this "compromise", which didn't need to happen in the first place aims to do is to have the insurance companies just include birth control in their plan without a co-pay charge....so not free.....free if you have insurance.....but hardly free

now of course this will never stop the fake outrage bandwagon of the let it die talking heads about the mean old president's bullying all religions everywhere while trying to steal everyone's money

yes- what is available for health care isn't the topic. It is if I, who pays a substantial portion of my health care premiums, should have to pay just a little more because Obama has dictated that my insurance company "kick in" some benefits for some people because either they, or the entity paying for their insurance doesn't want to pay for those benefits.

rusty,

sex is always great-FOR THE MAN.

they don't have to worry about getting pregnant, and taking responsibility for a CHILD. wam bam, not even a thank you mam.

i don't understand why you can't all see that by helping women get birth control, there will be less abortion, less children who are abused. that is something i feel strongly about, and will pay more for the betterment of society. aren't we all in this together, to some degree?

we have to deal with the world as it is. we simply can't wish for everyone to be abstinent, and expect that it will happen. i do not think that just because a woman has sex, that she should HAVE to run the risk of getting pregnant. we already have too many abused and hungry kids in america, we should do what we can to stop some of it by providing birth control to those who cannot afford it. god does not follow horny teenagers into the backseats of cars and "bless" the resulting pregnancy, as michelle bachmann thinks, that god has a hand in every pregnancy. god also does not bless the pregnancy of rape or incest. this is just a biological result of having sex.

you don't like it, of course, but i will pay more to prevent abortion, and to prevent the abuse of children.

it is for the greater good.

CC, i agree with you...

you don't like it, of course, but i will pay more to prevent abortion, and to prevent the abuse of children.

This of course assumes you will pay more which I would argue may not be the case since this is far from final.....which I might also add that if they hadn't worked out this "compromise" in the first place there would have been no danger of that

I mean really businesses owned by the church can just not believe in a law and thus be excused from following it.......now what the right will and continually chant is that that business owned owned by the church are religious some how in nature which they're NOT.....

I mean lets say the Koch brothers founded the Church of industrial saintly chemicals..or whatever name you....and then got that church acknowledged by the state could they just say their doctrine requires 12hr work days for kids, or that don't believe the EPA exists, and that working for a dollar a day was a holy sacrament that they could just be excluded from having to follow all those laws just because they own the business?

The GOP chants and Obama backpeddles unnecessarily.....maybe they are witches because all the mindless chanting they do seems to have almost magical effectiveness.......

Suzette- while I do understand your argument that women will continue to have sex with men who refuse to take any responsibility- that discussion isn't what this is about.

The real element of this argument is whether the government can dictate someone, or a Church, etc, to pay for or provide something that falls contrary to their core beliefs. If a government study, obviously funded by the pork producers, finds that eating 3 pieces of bacon a day reduces heart disease- does the government have the authority to dictate everyone eat those 3 pieces of pork a day- Jewish and Muslim people included? Or better said- let the people choose whether to eat them or not- but the Synagogue or Mosque must provide this pork on the plates of food they provide?

So, Obama- after realizing he had stepped into this pile of doodoo- and in disagreement with you as well, has now said that those Jewish and Muslim entities do not have to provide for this pork. But- the Pork producers now are expected to toss in pork chops for free. Which means- when you and I go to the store to buy pork chops- we will be subsidizing them by paying more for ours to absorb those "free" ones they had to chip in.

CC,

i am not a lawyer, nor am i a catholic. neither am i the first african american president of the united states.

i believe that very fact has affected how this President has been treated (even though he could have introduced this in a more thoughtful way) and how he responds. and while i don't like the fact that he compromises on too many things, i feel this is a fair compromise, and i believe he will leave it this way.

i agree-the catholic church should follow the law, but as we know, religion (the catholic church) trumps law.

i am hopeful that the american people are sick and tired of repubs (and now catholics) wanting us to live in the kind of world that doesn't exist. a world where women don't want to take birth control, or enjoy sex. and if they do enjoy sex, its only for the reasons of pleasing their man, or getting pregnant. a world where women have a baby every year instead of just the 2.5 they have per god-given uterus now.

i hear you, but i am willing to cut President Obama some slack. i am not disappointed in this compromise. i feel it is a good compromise. i agree with his belief that birth control should be made available to all women through insurance, as viagra is for men. as much as i disagree with the catholic church, i do understand why the president made this compromise, even if, according to you, it was unnecessary.

i am not disappointed in the President for this compromise.

rusty,

but the gov't can dictate whether a woman can take birth control, or get an abortion? they want to regulate something that falls contrary to women's belief's.

that is where the repubs want to take our country.

unlike you, i am thinking of the bigger picture. i am thinking of women's health, and their ability and desire to PLAN a pregnancy, so they can fulfill other obligations that they have. being barefoot and pregnant is not the primary role of a woman in this society-NOT UNLESS SHE WANTS IT TO BE. i am also thinking of the unwanted pregnancies and abortions that would be avoided.

we went to two wars, and we didn't have to pay anything for that. taxes were cut twice, the second time in march of 2003, the same month bush invaded iraq. the lives of 4500 troops were lost in that war-the war that no-one paid for. you all disagree with birth control and abortion, but are happy to send young men into war where they are killed or maimed for life.

i agree with birth control and abortion is a very personal decision, up to the woman. it disgusts me that the catholic hierarchy are all men, yet they THINK they are authorities on birth control and abortion. they are really authorities on the molestation of little boys, and they know how to protect their own on that dirty little deed, how to try to cover it up.

democrats feel this discussion is about the right for women to have access to birth control. repubs feel this discussion is about trying to regulate the catholic church. it seems they don't like to be regulated.

i will determine what this discussion is about for me. as a woman, it is very personal, and i cannot help but bring all aspects of it into the discussion.

lol- suzette- I'm amazed by your second sentence. There are as many liberal people against this as conservative. And- look at the voting records of Catholics- overwhelmingly Democrat.

You may want to look at the very essence of the first amendment. I wouldn't think that a liberal like you would advocate the regulation of religion. A conservative like me surely wouldn't. By the way- I'm not Catholic, Jewish or Muslim. But I do respect their rights.

A few of the Dems against birth control mandate- Joe Biden, Leon Panetta, former DNC Chai Tim Kaine, Bob Casey, Joe Lieberman, Joe Manchin (calls it un-American), Dan Lipinski. It's obviously oversimplified to label this a Rep-Dem fight. In fact- many Democrats would claim their party to be more First Amendment oriented than Republicans. I understand, Suzette- this is one of those First Amendment issues you feel should slide.

tell yah what rusty - core beliefs be damned - this is about a BUSINESS refusing to comply With the health care RULES. EVERY OTHER BUSINESS WILL ALSO BE FORCED TO COMPLY - what make s business owned and operated by a CHURCH DIFFERENT? The religion (worthless as it is) can do as they wish - the BUSINESS CANNOT - it's JUST THAT SIMPLE! Let's just tax the church and be done with it.

This is not a religious just because it involves a church so Rusty you can play this anyway you want you're wrong. IF the church doesn't want to follow business law then it should not own any businesses this has got nothing to do with their beliefs about birth control which all catholic use, 6 out of 10 catholics support in regards to this measure, and that the church ALREADY pays for many of it's employees

tell me Rusty if the church already provides birth control isn't that a sign that despite what they claim this really doesn't seriously go against their beliefs.....I think a court would agree with that arguement

But as we all know the Catholic Church is just a whore wearing sanctimonius regalia to hide all the blood on their hands which as we also all know uses the money of its faithful to shield pedophiles from justice. So let this be an attack on the beaucracy that is the catholic church and let it continue every day they continue to help pedophiles and I wish the very same for every other person or organization that does the same!!!

The church can talk conscience with me when they either release the gag orders on all the abuse victims so they can testify at trial, the last known whereabouts of every accused or suspected pedophile priest, any and all material evidence in their pocession and any testimony or admissions(under "confession" or not) from potential witnesses

.......or they can stop pretending to be the voice and hand of God on earth.....don't think Jesus would like child molesters in pulpit very much..........

The church can talk to me about conscience when its conscience is clean till then I don't see any reason to even waste time considering their so called "beliefs"....if they don't want to follow business law I say tough luck buttercup don't open a business.

why is the church allowed to walk around the LAW?

rusty,

i don't have much respect for the catholic church, just as republicans don't have respect for muslims, and want to regulate the number of mosques (remember ground zero) and other things. there is always a cross section of democrats and republicans in any debate we might be having, but as a general rule, repubs are against birth control, and the building of mosques. democrats, as a general rule are more accepting of certain things.

as for regulations, republicans love regulations-they want to regulate gays, birth control, abortion. conservatives think if they complain about regulations, and blame the democrats for regulating, no-one will notice that they are the pary of regulations, except when it comes to money.

although your list of democrats who are against the mandate is slightly less than impressive, there are NOT as many liberals against the mandate as there are repubs.

as for Joe Biden, he is for the mandate, he is/was just concerned about how the administration proceed on the policy.

Canary, CC, Suzette- Evidently, Obama agrees with my point of view and has rejected yours. Even in his first cut, before he flip flopped, Churches were excluded from this requirement. In his flip flopped version- Church Extensions were excluded, with the provision that Insurance companies reach into their box of free goodies and provide them. Another way of saying- the three of you will now be subsidizing the Catholic Church's health care plans. They will not have to pick up this element- and the other customers of health care insurance will then foot the bill.

Now- with your disdain for the Catholic Church- do you possibly see my point? I'm not wanting to subsidize them. I don't think you three do either, from the sounds of it- but you are advocating just that. Unintended consequence???

suzette

against birth control

I for one resent anyone telling me what I think. To say Republicans are against birth control is close to a hallucination. Rusty made the point. What you do with your sexual partner is up to you. It is not up to me to pay for your birth control The consequences of your personal action in the matter ore yours not mine. . I for one do not mind subsidizing health care fo9r your cancer but the last time i looked pregnancy is not a disease.

-they want to regulate gays, birth control, abortion. conservatives think if they complain about regulations, and blame the democrats for regulating, no-one will notice that they are the pary of regulations, except when it comes to money.

Again Suzette how do you "regulate" gay people" for the record we feel that all Americans are protected in exactly the same way by the Constitution and the bill of rights. We are against carving out SPECIAL rights that apply only to a special interest group. The Democrats are the party of groups and owe political favors to each group in return for their votes so they make sometimes conflicting promises to each group. . Republicans are the party of individuals that is why our policies are aimed a having government get out of the way of individual people not bestow favor on membership in a group. There is one area though that you are correct on. Most Republicans ( not me ) are pro life and hence want Roe v wade overturned. At best we want such matters handled by the most local authority possible to reflect the values of that community. We do not want to regulate social issues we want government to stick to the functions of a government that we can't do for ourselves.

TC,

santorum-"birth control is not something you need insurance for. it costs just as few dollars" also, taking birth control is "NOT OK", "its a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be" according to santorum. he also thinks that "Griswold vs. Connecticut", the SUPREME COURT decision that said that states cannot deny married couples access to contraception, should be overturned. santorum said that "states have the right to outlaw birth control.

mitt romney-much as mitt romney slams the President for "Obamacare", he also slams President Obama for requiring most employers to offer insurance that provides birth control at no cost for women who want it, but in HIS health care plan, he maintained a similar rule.

rep. steve king-birth control contributes to america becoming a "dying civilazation". repubs (in washington, not YOU) feel that a woman should have more babies than ONLY the 2.5 they are having per "god-given" uterus now.

rep. dan burton- one year ago, as republicans seek to cut off funding for title X, the only federal program devoted to family planning among humans, dan burton introduces a bill that would promote the use of contraception by HORSES.

marco rubio-introduced a bill that could cut access to birth control for millions of women by allowing even "non-religious" employers to refuse birth control as long as they site a "religious reason".

40% of house members, and 1/4 of their cohorts in the senate, back bills that would make the use of an IUD (uterus implant) tantamount to MURDER.

i don't recall telling anyone what to think. i am clearly expressing my disagreements with the republican party (in wahington).

and while it is true that you and others on this blog do not care if a woman takes birth control or not, or has an abortion, your opinions don't matter when it comes to LAW. when i write about republicans i am referring to the repubs in washington. THEY are the ones who are creating this assault on women's health care. they are the ones who don't want women to take birth control. have you NOT heard what they are saying?

i have a feeling this discussion would be much different if men were the ones who carried a baby to term (like passing a bowling ball through the tip of your penis). the ability for women to control the # of children she has is key to lifting women out of poverty. birth control has allowed women to accumulate their own wealth, to go to school, to run a business, and to have and enjoy sex without getting pregnant or married, much as men do.

this so called "war on religion" as repubs LOVE to call it, is a fabrication of the catholic church and the extreme RIGHT, which repubs in washington are exposing themselves to be. if women have no control over their bodies, and live as "god's will" would have them live, it is apparent to women, at least, that the repubs (in washington) and the extreme religious right, want to shove women back to the 18th century.

you regulate gay people, you "keep them in their place" by not allowing them civil rights, by "don't ask, don't tell". civil rights are not "special" for you or me. what is it about gay people that makes THEIR civil rights "special?

YOU think roe vs. wade should be overturned, YOU are in the minority. most women, most people do not want roe v. wade overturned.

without gov't, we are exploited by the unchecked power of the wealthy, and corporations, and apparently the catholic church. without gov't, they can pollute our water and air, cheat us (wall street) and do wahtever else they want. the "halliburton loophole" in regard to fracking-toxins used in this process do not have to be exposed.

i understand your point about not wanting to pay for someone's elses birth control. does it bother you that you pay for another man's sexual pleasure (viagra anyone?).

i get that you think unwanted babies (a result of sex without birth control) who will be abused are not what this conversation is about, i get that you think the reduced # of abortions should also not be included in this conversation, but this is a direct consequence of what happens when women do not have access to birth control.

Kathe

Let me tell you something personal 50 years ago a child of mine was aborted. I even encouraged it. Altho we later married that alone broke up our marriage. There is not been a day since then that i have not felt pangs of guilt and sorrow. Now if that is wanting to stop abortions because I don't understand you are way off base i understand in a way you do not. those that keep wanting this terrible thing never talk about the blowback i can't imagine anyone with a conscience not regretting having one for the rest of their life. That being said it was our choice then and should be your or anyone's else s choice now. I am not against giving the full range of information to anyone that may be unthinking and just wanting to solve a problem today. Knowledge is NOT unfair it may save someone from a lifetime of despair. I do think it should be a local issue and as local as possible to reflect community standards. If as you say everybody is for it you should not fear your community.

Regarding contraception To say we are against it is just hype. The truth is that there are SOME religious groups against it and all we are saying is they should not be forced to do what they don't want to do on moral grounds That is raw government power at its worst. . For the majority though access to prescriptions should be available. However if a pharmacist is against for example the abortion pill for religious reason or a nurse in a women's clinic should not be forced against their will to participate in what they honestly believe to be murder. If you think it is alright to force for example a Mennonite nurse to assist in an abortion then we will continue to disagree. I am against any involuntary servitude to the tyranny of the masses.

Your are afraid of the wrong thing there is no unchecked power of the rich the only power that cannot be checked is governmental If you don't believe that look at Syria, Iraq under Saddam, Sudan, the Congo. Government only is the entity that has the power to do what you are arguing against.I don't know you but I already trust you much more that any bureaucrat that i may come into contact with. Only Government has the power to tax, to control your guns, to confiscate your real estate,control what you build, what drug you take, what you smoke or not no business comes close to this power. The rich guy down the street cannot stop an abortion but the legislature can. I personally am fighting a rich corporation Glaxo Smith Klein for damage one of their drugs did to my heart.I have won but the money has not been settled. Courts and the free market are the check on rampant business there is no check on rampant government. Why liberals can't see this obvious fact has kept me scratching my head for 60 years. . Do you really think the market will continue to support for example a toy that has been shown to be dangerous? The government has the power to force you to do something involuntarily the market is controlled by you. People will stop buying it and good buy rich toy company. The intervention is the consuming public that really does work without a bureaucrats personal bias at work.

Santorum has his pitch and it will either resonate with the party or it will not. I think he represents only the Christian right which is a large voting block not unlike the union voting block that the Dems cater to. Modern voters fall into interest groups and due to their large voting power are courted by one side or the other based on the closest beliefs. Dems are not going to get the Evangelical vote as they are not only Values voters they also at least go along with the ideas of the fiscal conservatives. Union voters want union friendly legislation and Dems go along to get that vote even if some of their policies go beyond what average dems wish.

The latest poll i have seen shows that DEMS and Repub each represent about 40% of the voters with a slight 2% advantage to Dems. Which goes back and forth. Do you really think 40% of the public is against contraception? the dem spin machine has what they think is an issue and they are fueling the flames because this can be laid at Santorum who has now gained some strength so they are going after him just like they did to other front runners like they did to Bachman AND and Cain and Perry when they were front runners.This is the way the game is played so OK but some will drink the Kool Aid and some will not it depends on what your beginning prejudices are. This is what they are paid to do attack the front runners particularly the ones who appeal to the Christian right which are a huge voting block who just might stay home rather than vote for a Mormon. my personal preferences are the two Mormons especially Huntsman. Obama want to run either against Romney or Gingrich as they are the most likely to turn off the Christian right voting blockl

TC,

i am sorry for the pain and guilt you feel over the abortion you encouraged your "girlfriend" to have. i only know one person who has had an abortion (not me), and that was years ago. there are many people who have a conscience who DO NOT feel guilt over having an abortion. do not expect that everyone will feel the same as you. the woman who has to bear and deliver the child, might feel a sense of relief that she does not have to do that if she has an abortion. this does NOT make her a bad person, or mean that she won't feel some regret and sorrow. only she has her reasons, that are personal to her, and none of my business. but i would never say "she must not have a conscience.

and i have never said that "everyone" is for the right to have an abortion. all we need do is listen to the repubs in washington to know that THEY are not for that right. where do you get that my saying that repubs in washington are against abortion is just "hype" again i ask you, are you listening to what the repubs in washington are saying? in my post 1.37 i gave you several examples, do you want more?

if a pharmacist is against giving the abortion pill, then he should probably find another job, or have another pharmacist do it. if a mennonite nurse might have to participate in an abortive procedure, and she doesn't want to do it, i would suggest that she find another nursing job. nurses have many options.

i disagree with your assessment that the only power that cannot be checked is the gov't. do you agree with the halliburton loophole? that toxins put into the earth and water should NOT be disclosed? that is an example of a rich and powerful company going unchecked.

i don't see the dems as the ones fanning the flames. what i see is the republican party giving President Obama a hard time, as they always do, trying to make Obama look like he is disrespecting the right of the catholic church. this discussion in regard to "outlawing" birth control has been a discussion for at least the past 4 years, if not before that. i wish you would do some research, because this is not hype, unless you believe the repub party is lying or just exaggerating their stance on birth control and abortion? i have a hard time believing that the repubs would come out in defense of muslims (freedom of religion) the way they are defending the catholic church. of course if it would make President Obama look bad, i'm sure they would defend the muslims as well, but that would be the only reason. the republicans in washington (gov't) want to take contraception out of health care, period. is this not the gov't forcing women to do something that they don't want?

i can't believe that you don't see what the republicans have been trying to do to contraception for years. i can't believe you do not hear what they are saying, maybe because it doesn't affect you as it does women.

they HYPE is was referring to was not over abortion I was referring to the false idea that republicans who are about 38% of the population are against birth control That is what was said in earlier posts. Abortion is a much more sensitive issue and i don't know how many Repubs are on either side i just know there are pro choice Republicans all over the place you just never hear of them i am one of them and travel in republican circles. Most of Those that share my position want it to be a local option thing not federal..

Regarding the Halliburton loophole who creates all loopholes? Government is the only thing that can pick winners and losers and make it stick Corporations have little power of their own they must use government power to hide behind . This puts government in the position of picking winners and losers, That is just too much power for me what if i own a corp and someone else owns a corp and we compete. What it the Gov likes my competitor better do i have any chance in hell. Of course not left to the market the people voting with their dollars will pick the winner not the gov. It is the source of all power and thre is no market to regulate its power and it cannot be sued.

I hate to say your answer to the pharmacist illustration but it is typical. A pharmacist who got in the business to help sick people should not have to find another area of work if he/she did not want to participate in killing a kid. Maybe the woman should find a pharmacist who doesn't mind not the other way around. Why should a Mennonite who wants to provide care to women be required to kill a kid it is reverse morality i think.

Suzette some people will see what they wish, we are all guilty of it in some ways but...well......that's a different story

The GOP constantly wants to try and say that they are for "religious", "faith" freedoms yet they seem to have only one faith that they really care about. To the far right folks christianity is the only religion that will do in the public square however as an attempt to hide this they have stolen the words "religion" and "faith" much in the same way they attempt to wrap themselves and everything they do in the flag. Thus if you disagree you disagree with all America or in this case all religions EVERYWHERE.

Is there anyone out there that really believes that if this was islam or any other not christian religion that the GOP would be there to defend it? really??

The GOP is sadly aligning itself with radical social factions who want to outlaw birth control. They tried to do so in Mississippi with the fertilization personhood bill, which WOULD have banned hormonal birth control. If you believe that fertilization is the start of life(which is not correct by the way) and that life at fertilization must be protected then you outlaw IUD's, birth control pills, and other very common forms of birth control. These strange ultra broad outlandish bills which go to far make the party look bad, it's okay to not like abortion but these legislation packages just end up going way to far beyond what it is trying to stop. Why the GOP don't see this I don't know perhaps it's that silly 11th commandment thing....

So this catholic church thing was never about religious freedom despite what the far right contends, clearly paying for birth control in the health care plans they give their employees does not violate their religious freedom because they already do willingly, right now........as I've said many times if only the church's defense of pedophiles got this much attention....

here is the actual platform that republicans signed off on nothing about biorth control

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm

i get that-the repubs you hang out with don't care about birth control. your feelings about this are NOT the same feelings as the people who have power in washington, therefore, you don't count, what you think doesn't matter in regard to birth control. the people who make LAWS, and governors of states are the ones who count. the gov. of virginia, bob mcdonnell, for example. they just signed something into law today in regard to contraception. look it up, if you want to know.

rachel maddow has alot of information about birth control and abortion, and how the repubs IN WASHINGTON and GOVERNORS OF STATES want to OUTLAW IT.

the halliburton loophole was cheney's idea. he rendered the EPA impotent in this case, its a regulation he didn't like (exposing names of toxins) and the residents who live in areas where fracking is done, be damned. is this an area where you would approve of gov't involvement? safe drinking water is good?

TC,

the repubs in washington, and bob mcDonnell of virginia, rick santorum, and despite what his health care bill says, mitt romney, and others, believe that taking the "pill" is the same as abortion, because it creates a hostile environment for a fertilized egg to implant. the sanctity of life, the respect for human dignity that the repubs are referring to was in the "personhood" ammendment, in mississippi that was voted down.

repubs want to give respect and dignity to a fertilized egg, to a fetus, but NOT TO THE WOMAN.

acccording to repubs, a fertilized egg is a person, and taking the pill to PREVENT A PREGNANCY, is the same as an abortion.

a fertilized egg, who cannot live outside the mothers body, IS NOT A KID.

and speaking of dignity, the repubs want to take dignity away from women by this assault on health care. they SAY they don't like regulations, but this regulation on womens health care is one the repubs LOVE.

suzette

I know you are not going to agree and for the record I'm not on their side but They understand this issue differently than you give them credit for. Apparently from the pro life world there is birth control and there is birth control. Their objection is not to what we used to refer to as "the pill" but rather to certain types of so called birth control that act in a way different from the pill. you can make statements all day long about what constitutes a person but that is only your opinion and not Gods fact. You may not believe in God but your belief or lack of it is irrelevant to his actual existence or non existence. There are certain types of birth control that operate as abortifacients and that is what they are against it is the type not the idea of birth control that they are against. It may sound silly to you but try to wrap your mind around this. If you actually truly in the deepest part of your being believed that certain actions resulted in the death of an innocent child would it not be your responsibility to do what you could to stop it? I am not suggesting that you should feel one way or another I am asking if it is possible for you to understand where they are coming from regardless of your personal opinion . the truth is none of will know for sure until we are dead. here is a link to a dr written explanation of how these various drugs and items work. The old style hormone pill prevents an egg from coming down the tubes there is not objection to that kind of control.

http://www.lifeissues.org/abortifacients/index.html

TC your so called evidence is hardly valid here, you can choose to believe fertilization is when life begins if you wish but to mandate that by law you will make alternative pregancy options/fertility treatments, hormonal birth control, and abortion all illegal and the majority of when use hormonal birth control

that is what will happen whether you believe starts here or there is irrelavent

Seems to me if they are just trying to stop these certain aborto what ever you wish to call them maybe they make that clear as there are so many forms of birth control.....wonder why they haven't done that.........

suzette sorry I did not see you last paragraph about Halliburton but it just makes my point corporation power is nothing without government power. Only the govemt can give or take away That is why i am leery of Government only the Government can pick winners and losers without market action if it can pick Halliburton it can unpick me. I'm not worried about Halliburton without government cover and if government changes cover can pass to some other entity or company. I will never understand the lefts belief that Government is the answer it is always the problem.

The Only Religion the Republicans Believe in is M O N E Y!!! Just think, if birth control was available back some 50 years ago, some of these republicans wouldn't be here today. That where we went wrong.******************

steve

Here is a learning moment condoms( birth control) have been around for 100 years but your dad forgot to buy one they were readily available in every men's bathroom in the country..

Here is a learning moment condoms( birth control) have been around for 100 years but your dad forgot to buy one they were readily available in every men's bathroom in the country..

Condoms really aren't considered "birth control" it's just in the category of contraceptives, birth control refers to female birth control...fitting since the females do the birthing.....like the pill.

p.s. condoms from a hundred years ago sucked beyond belief most of them did not work unlike today's rubbers

SUZETTE - I would laugh if OBAMA was to put a base on the moon before GOONGRINCH even made it to office (at least getting a contract started with an american company).

@suzette

Yes.... the Repugs made a big deal out of everything, twisting and turning it to get the most political effect... even when it doesn't make a bit of sense. Of course, they don't have to make any sense when they are playing to the crazies on the right. They wouldn't know 'SENSE' if it walked up and slapped them in the face.

I was so happy to hear President Obama point out that 'there were some who made a political football' out of the debate about contraceptives, etc. There was a time in the past when President Obama was still trying to work with these morons, that he probably wouldn't have made a comment like that.

Hi Tamarack!

Good post!

I often wonder why the "candidates" keep ignoring that Commandment.

I've noticed that they use the Old Testament only where it serves their purpose and don't acknowlege the New Testament teachings. I don't think these good Christians read the Bible anymore. It gets in the way of their ambitions.

Let's assume that a political ad runs on TV with a blatant lie. Some people will recognize it is a lie and not listen to it. Others will listen, particularly if the lie confirms what they already believe. The ad is run again and again. It is run so frequently that viewers assume that it must be true or it wouldn't be on TV so often. Afterall, it is essential that people know the truth. Simply keep repeating the lie over and over and over. Soon it is accepted as the truth and never questioned.

@ITHINKICAN

YES... that is of course the technique that the GOP uses to brain wash their gullible followers and keep them in ignorance.... and voting against their own best interests. These poor idiots are never given the chance to hear any part of the truth of any issue, that might sound good to them.

If you tune into any Fox and Flunkies programming at any point, you will hear the same lies being repeated over and over and over and over. That is how brain washing occurs and the GOP and the Fox propaganda network are pros at it. That false message being drilled into their foggy little minds hour after hour, day after day.... and most of these sad gullible people have no idea what is being done to them.

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels

Sounds to me like he wants women to be uneducated, barefoot, pregnant and poor. Dependent on men. Pooey!

Santorum is one of the most corrupt politicians in recent memory. He repeatedly sponsored laws giving very specific help worth milliions to companies and they in turn gave him very large campaign donations, and after he left the Senate, showered him with millions of dollars in cash that went directly into his pocket. He went into Congress one of the poorest and when he left, he was rich. He was twice named one of America's 3 most corrupt senators by CREW, a clean-government group, was voted out of the Senate in 2006. Typical repub/tparty scum.

That's just a wee bit on this holier than thou good-for-nothing. If there was the smallest way he could make a buck, he did it and doing it. Good thing he told us he's christian - you would never know from his kick-backs and fraudulent activities.

Nanette , Hope you are not getting hit to hard there with the weather. Its snowing here but not bad its the cold and single digits I dread. All right you Said a mouth full . I got news for them we burned our bras once and we will do it again. I think we all have a rolling pin and the days of a woman being controlled are over ! Santorum is a back door idiot. I can not believe the stuff he is saying and even worse people are following!!!

Hi Pam52: We're getting the same weather system you are. Single digits, snow and temps in the teens. If that's not bad enough, it'll be WINDY!

Santorum is, and I don't say this lightly, crazy. He lies, distorts, and confuses. He would take women back to the 1900's! What on EARTH are these Republicans thinking?? My Republican parents would not even believe it! To them, Repubs were martini drinking, country club attending, party going, golf playing, tennis playing, fun loving Americans! My dad's first question, if he were here, would be, "Are you sure these are Republicans?!

Then he'd ask me if there had been a nuclear war and these were the resulting mutants! LOL

@Roger Thacker

Yes.... and the hypocrisy about what Santorum says is that he was talking in Cpac about how President Obama is supposedly trying to force everyone to live and believe a certain way. Of course, that is not what Obama is doing... except in Santorum's fevered mind.

Yet... Santorum then admits that HE WANTS TO MAKE EVERYONE LIVE AND BELIEVE THE WAY HE THINKS THEY SHOULD. He is doing EXACTLY the thing that he is falsely accusing President Obama of doing, yet he can't see the contradictions of him doing exactly what he views as Obama's policies.... denying everyone to live as they want.

@Nanette, earthgirl, Pam & India

Frankly... I don't see any difference between any of the Repugs... in their policies, in the lies they tell not only about President Obama but about each other. None of them comes close to being qualified, or fit for the presidency.

Fortunately none of them seems to be able to come close to getting the support of enough of the conservatives to win the election. Most of them are splitting the truely rightwingnut, crazy vote and there aren't enough moderates to give Robme the majority vote.

Then there's this possible trick that Paul is running by grabbing up the delegates for himself. Wouldn't it be great if President Obama ended up running against Ron Paul because he had the most delegates at the convention?

Well, DScully, how are you? None of this bunch are fit to be anything but car salesman or lobbyists. Perhaps Santorum could become an assistant to a gynecologist (But not mine, please). He's so interested in women's reproductive systems. (Or is that just the righties distraction of the week?)

Eisenhower wouldn't recognize these people as Republicans. Ike, as I understand it, wasn't even rich. He taxed the rich at 91% if memory serves me. I do recall my dad complaining about high taxes back then. Everyone did well, though, including my father. It must have been a different world back then.

I'm scared for PA. I just saw where Romney would beat Obama in PA by several points. Unbelievable!

whose poll? Obama beats Mitt in every poll I've seen except for the ones done by the RETHUG sturmabteilung

GOOD,lets just hope that they all die from PANIC ATTACKS.

Desperate panic mode, Mary. Obama is too clean for them to dispute, so they are just looking for some fault they can create. A lie is ok as long as it works for them.

Hey TM, What happened to that picture of Newt Gingrich in a cute sweater that you had on your avatar yesterday? LOL

He'll be back next time we have a dog day.

@Mary, Ted, TMom and India

The Repugs are in panic mode.... they are grasping at straws.... throwing whatever crap they can find out there. But they just can't seem to get Obama dirty, he is too clean for them to find real dirt.

But what I am wondering.... when President Obama is in his second term... will they still be working to make him a one term president? I don't see any cooperation coming from the lot by any means.

But what I am wondering.... when President Obama is in his second term... will they still be working to make him a one term president?

think it becomes Impeachment by any means.

Mary #9, Exactly right. They are into "Panic and distract" mode.
I like your snowflake avatar. I like snowflakes so much that my husband bought me a gold one to hang on a gold chain necklace. I'm wearing it now. It looks a lot like your avatar.

second term? depends entirely on the make-up of congress. IF there is a filibuster-proof senate, look for some progress. it's important, though, that the spending also be CUT and revenue increased.

President Obama has done quite a bit, in spite of the NO from the repub/tparty. It's in google under Obama Accomplishments. Contrary to your "..things that Obama has done that have not been helpful to the American people...," a study just published by some well known psychiatrist says that there is an attitude change in Americans. Says the deep fear and hate seems to be dissipating, anger has lessened, the "always looking over the shoulder" feeling disappearing. All this and more even from the unemployed/under employed Americans. That could only come from feeling more secure in the Leader, Prez Obama. He did and he's doing it. Hope and Change. Yes, WE can.

But, get all prepared for big time attacks, often and loud. Rove has his email army in gear, his election fraud army tanked, his ads getting pimped. The Komen debacle, as well as this crazy contraception issue were planned last fall. They're still at it, planning maybe against Israel/Iran? NATO/Russia? Who knows. The repub/tparty are masters of deceit. They've been at it a long time. OBAMA 2012 and a strong Democratic Congress

@Tom

The only thing wrong with Obama's policies is that he's given in too much to the Repugs, trying to reach compromise with them. He compromised the public option before health care reform even got started, and he didn't put more pressure on the Dem Congress to extend unemployment, etc. back in 2010 before the Repugs had the chance to take them hostage and demand the extension of the Bush tax cuts.

@earthgirl

What do you mean " the always looking over the shoulder" feeling is disappearing." Are you referring to American's feeling safer in respect to a terrorist attack after 911? I can understand that, but I felt safer in that respect as soon as President Obama was elected and in office. I knew that boob GW and his band of war mongerers weren't keeping the country safe.

As for Rove... I wouldn't put anything past him in deceitful behaviors. I've heard he was mostly behind all the voter fraud during the 2000 and 2004 elections.

:) since President Obama.

Hi Nanette!

You would think they'd be cleaning up their backyards and mouths. They're "candidates" for POTUS, for Heaven's sake.

The attacks on our President will continue on social issues and it's going to get worse. Wonder if they can clean up their foul speech for the Presidential debates.

For months I've been thinking about that.....and will moderators intervene. It does the Country no good for this crap to continue in that arena.

kathe, I have a feeling that their backyards are in too much of a mess for them to clean up, and their mouths.....well they are whackos. They don't really know any better, and besides that they will say whatever they think they need to say to get attention from their nutty gaggle of followers.

The problem with making THEM "clean up" is that it would affect ME not being able to tell those Kochsuckers exactly what I THINK OF THEM!

I was surprised when the announcement that Osama bin Crabbait got 2 shots and a splash, there wasn't a RETHUG rebuttal about how Osama had helped rid Afghanistan of the Soviets...yada yada yada

JOHN IN TEXAS - You're not the only one LAUGHING about it.I just can't wait for the GOP to go BELLY UP for good.

It's all they've got at the moment and they'll squeeze it to the last drop. Then they'll find some, new shiny object to latch onto over there! And they'll use that for all it's worth. They never give up, it's always one thing after another. I'm sick to death of Repubs.

You and me both MJB. The teabaggers are a scurge on this country and need to be kept in the minority at all cost.... As if I have to say it, Obama/Biden 2012.

Reagan also gave illegals AMNESTY

mxccdd i forgot about AMNESTY,thx for reminder.

Brett: Thanks for your post. I didn't thnk anyone remembered his "I don't remember" when he was questioned at the hearing. And that slimeball that also testified AhDuh, Ollie North. Possible that Reagan didn't remember, maybe Alzheimer? or just plain repub lying.

Saw Gingrich this afternoon and he is flipping. The moon colony was one thing, ok, pass on that-maybe he was excited, but today he was off any logical, straight thinking. I'm beginning to believe he really is suffering from delusion, much like that republican war criminal, cheney. Time will tell. And we pay for it.

PILOTSHARK - They could go ahead and double down because i'll triple down on all their LIES.

I hear Marco Rubio is lying again. First it was his parents coming here to get away from Castro, now he has said his paternal grandmother died when his Dad was 6, NOW Granny died when Dad was 9. Which is it Marco? If you're not smart enough to keep your lies straight, you're not smart enough to be in politics! Of course he's young, I guess in time he'll be as good a liar as the rest of the Repubs!

Sounds like that AZ governor. She said her Dad died in WWII, when she was 9. In truth he died of lung cancer in 1955. What is it with these R/Tps. Even on the simplest, smallest things, they have to lie and lie some more.

Dad was 6, NOW Granny died when Dad was 9. Which is it Marco?

LOL well maybe he was talking while on his head the first time.

Of course he is lying, his mouth is moving.

Sorry guys, I don't know what made me hit the 6, it should have been 2! Maybe I was standing on MY head! LOL But that makes it even worse. You'd think he could tell the difference between 2 and 9! This doesn't make ME a liar, does it? LOL

Hi earthgirl!

Maybe Brewer was trying to hide her age in reverse.....would rather explain her premature aging that way than to admit maybe hitting the sauce or popping pills.

Hi kathe weird sounds huh!

Hi xxx!

Yes. The one you sent sounded like hydraulic equipment on metal....kind of. Strange that it's all over the World and the same sound. I still think it could be a prank.

I heard about it on the national news some time back, I don't know seems to all over the planet but who knows! I think it needs more investigation. It gives me the willies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Khi_NX9RU-I

Okay...now I don't think it's a hoax. More strange sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIGks7SF-lY&feature=related

Sent email about scientific explanations which includes discussions on news programs with physicist Michio Kaku (even on FOX in 2008 when they had a legitimate science show - no spin!). It seems to be the interaction with the Sun's activity and the Earth's crust.

I think that science confirms the existence of God. Just because most scientists are agnostic doesn't mean their research should be disregarded.

Oh....and the ionic atmosphere is involved.

Science has not nor will it ever prove "god" and its existence. In order for something to accurately be called scientific it must go along with the scientific. Science is a philosophy which seeks to find the reason events or objects are as they are....in other words science in truth can only answer how things happen but not ultimately why they occur

In reality scientific concepts have never been at war with "religion", the fictional mutually exclusive thought processes of some one on both sides of the issue hijack the debate. Science and religion have never been at war the conflict is only between scientists and religious people.

Science is not equipped with the ability to answer these grandiose trancendental ideas much in the same way that faith can not explain science

Hey Cynical!

I don't disagree with what you said. Science is not in the business of proving Faith anymore than my profession is.

I don't believe that spirituality and religiosity are one in the same. An enlightened person only has to look at churches that preach to gain control over their followers, politics, hate, intolerance or such to know this is wrong.

"For those who may not find happiness to exercise religious faith, it's okay to remain a radical atheist, it's absolutely an individual right, but the important thing is with a compassionate heart -- then no problem." - Dalai Lama

Paulfrom Witchita, Yeah,...and the poor sots won't even have food stamps.

India have heard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Gh7T91dSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Khi_NX9RU-I

More sound! At a MLB game!

#20.2 XXXOOO, Well, that's the scariest thing I ever heard. What do you think it is? I listened to several others, too, including the Ukraine. OMG...

xxxooo There's a worse one: Sounds Of The Apocalypse heard in Canada, Sweden, Denmark,Czech Republic, etc. on U-TUBE. Czech one real scary.

http://geochangemag.org/index.php

This may calm your nerves, Or maybe not! Is it the beginning or will it continue???

Hi India!

These videos may calm your nerves. <s>

NASA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwETEGmqmAY&feature=related

Physicist Michio Kaku commenting for about the last half. It will continue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfU2PLBLrz4&feature=related

Science is a *good* thing. How can the r/tp's not believe in it when we have the light bulb, airplanes, H-bombs and nuclear energy, just to name a few that took scientific research and development? I believe that it was God's hand that first provided the basics for man's discovery.

: + )

): > O

Kathe, we might start getting ready for the unknown future. Always be prepared. Very interesting stuff.